We might expect a western scientist philosopher and Hindu monk to have conflicting perspectives on the concept of consciousness, but in this fascinating dialogue, Bernardo Kastrup and Swami Sarvapriyananda explore the potential common ground between ancient wisdom and western science.

Bernardo Kastrup is a scientist and philosopher, author of texts such as Why Materialism is Baloney, who describes himself as leading ‘the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental’. (See our interview with him below) In the video he confesses to having felt attacked by the scientific community for his conclusions regarding consciousness, which are more closely aligned with the non-dual perspective found in ancient spiritual disciplines.

Swami Sarvapriyananda is a Hindu monk and renowned speaker who is the head of the Vedanta Society of New York [/], a leading proponent of Advaita Vedanta, one of the philosophical schools of Hinduism stemming from the Upanishads. He begins with a beautifully simple explanation of how the Advaita Vedanta discipline has come to understand the self as none other than the pure and singular consciousness that illuminates all objects of experience: ‘Tat tvam asi’, That thou art – Thou art that. Bernardo responds with admiration, saying that:

In less than twenty minutes and with complete clarity [Swami has] just summed up the key to life.

In contrast, by being materially oriented, the Western scientific approach is left with what has been called the ‘hard problem of consciousness’ – the mystery of how the firing of neurons in a material brain produces the first person experience through which we live every moment and every sensory, cognitive and feeling  aspect of our lives. Bernardo, however, is  willing to question many of the fundamental assumptions which underpin the western perspective, especially the indubitability of matter at the heart of scientific enquiry.

A materialist perspective casts the self as a finite and vulnerable physical body existing for a short time in a vast and seemingly uncaring world. This inevitably shapes what we think is worth doing, how we treat others, and how we treat the world. Swami Sarvapriyananda describes this as a profound misunderstanding of who we are, and part of the story which has ultimately produced a dualistic and damaging culture. He suspects that because it is non-theistic and rational, Vedanta philosophy on self-knowledge can offer an alternative understanding which is accessible to the western mind, as it draws on everyday experience and analyses this rationally. 

In his own line of enquiry, Bernardo presents a non-dual understanding of consciousness and has been accused of plagiarising the Upanishads. He has subsequently studied the ancient texts, developing a deep respect for those who had so thoroughly investigated these existential questions thousands of years ago.

Swami acknowledges that his own understanding benefits from having substantial material and an established wisdom to draw upon, while Bernardo “has to take modern science, philosophical thought and his own intuitions seriously” to make this thinking acceptable for the modern age. Swami describes Bernardo’s work as courageous and essential:

This is the important thing – to think and rethink everything for oneself and in one’s own age.

The video is worth watching simply for the extraordinary clarity with which both men articulate a deeply complex concept. But perhaps the most profound point is made by their evident mutual respect for one-another. This is a touching exploration of a vital topic and feels particularly important, even nourishing, in the current context of persistent and divisive rhetoric across so many platforms of expression.

Charlotte Maberly

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